What is Dexos 1 oil? Is it an oil additive? Do I have to go to the GM dealer to get Dexos oil?
These questions and more will be answered in this post. The 2011 vehicles have been out for a few months now and GM owners are finding out that their new cars and trucks require a new oil.
From the GM website:
Dexos Oils for GM Cars
General Motors is committed to designing, building, and selling cars that perform well and last a long time – and to making the experience of owning a GM vehicle highly rewarding. GM is also working to make its vehicles more fuel efficient and emit fewer pollutants. A critical component of performance, longevity, and environmental sensitivity is the quality of the oil that goes into the car. The right oil will help your engine run well for a longer time; substandard oil will cause your engine to run poorly and may even damage it. Yet, in today’s market it’s not always possible to determine the quality of the oil you buy.
That’s why GM Powertrain engineers developed the dexos™ engine oil specification. The result is engine oil designed specifically for your GM engine, with added performance in areas important to its operation. dexos™ represents a high quality, robust oil formulated to some of the most rigorous specifications in the industry. And just like GM, dexos™ is global. GM wants to make sure that every GM car anywhere in the world has access to the highest quality oil formulated exclusively for GM engines.
dexos™ is designed to increase fuel efficiency, extend the life of your emissions system, require fewer oil changes, and produce fewer emissions. You save time and money, and your car performs the way it was designed to.
dexos™ is the best oil for any GM car. It’s that simple.
To this end, new GM owners must use a dexos™ rated oil for best operation of their vehicles. dexos™ is not an engine oil additive, but a specification developed by GM that contains the proper base oils and additive components to pass the tests put out by GM for the specification. dexos 1™ is designed for gasoline engines and dexos 2™ is designed for diesel applications in GM automobiles and trucks.
“Do 2011 GM vehicle owners have to use a dexos-licensed product?” No. You can use any product that meets dexos specifications. They are not required to use a GM-licensed product. GM has chosen to grant licenses only to companies that pay them a substantial fee. Some oil companies have chosen to make a product that meets the same standards as a licensed product without adding an unnecessary administrative cost to the product that consumers would be forced to pay. So long as the oil manufacturer warrants that the motor oil meets dexos specifications, it’s acceptable to use it.
Federal law prohibits a manufacturer from requiring the use of a specific brand in order to maintain warranty coverage. The FTC recently issued a consumer alert to remind consumers that the automaker or dealer must prove a given product caused the need for repairs rather than denying warranty coverage on the basis of the product simply being used.
It is also worth noting that GM itself has acknowledged alternative engine oils may be used if dexos is unavailable. Owners manuals for 2011 GM cars state: “In the event that dexos-approved engine oil is not available at an oil change or for maintaining proper oil level, you may use substitute engine oil displaying the API Starburst symbol and of SAE 5W30 viscosity grade. Use of oils that do not meet the dexos specification, however, may result in reduced performance under certain circumstances.”
In accordance with the dexos 1™ specification AMSOIL Inc has redesigned their products to meet and exceed dexos 1™ requirements.
Currently the recommended viscosity for dexos 1™ is 5w30 grade. This multi-viscosity oil is designed to perform over a wide temperature range. 5w30 motor oils have been produced since the 1980’s to help increase fuel economy in passenger cars and trucks. AMSOIL has been a leader in fuel saving performance synthetic oils since 1972.
The current recommended AMSOIL oils for dexos 1 are:
Signature Series 100% Synthetic 5W-30 Motor Oil (ASL)
AMSOIL ASL 5w30 "Signature Series"
AMSOIL Signature Series Synthetic Motor Oil delivers extraordinary lubrication in all types of automotive gasoline engines.
5W-30 (ASL): API SN (Resource Conserving), SM…; ILSAC GF-5, GF-4…; ACEA A5/B5, A1/B1; Ford WSS-M2C946-A, WSS-M2C929-A; Chrysler MS-6395N; GM dexos1™ (supersedes LL-A-025, 6094M and 4718M) Fortified with detergents that exceed dexos1™ sulfated ash specifications.
AMSOIL Signature Series Synthetic Motor Oil is recommended for extended drain intervals in unmodified(1), mechanically sound(2) gasoline-fueled vehicles as follows: • Normal Service – Up to 25,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first.• Severe Service – Up to 15,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
Next we have:
Extended Life 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil (XLF) with Extended-Drain Boost Technology
AMSOIL XLF 5w30 "Extended Performance"
AMSOIL XL Extended Life Synthetic Motor Oils provide better wear control, high- and low-temperature protection and increased fuel economy compared to conventional oils.
Oil Specifications include: API SN, SM… ILSAC GF-5, GF-4… ACEA A1/B1, Ford WSS-M2C929-A, Chrysler MS-6395N, GM dexos1™ (supersedes LL-A-025, 6094M and 4718M)
- Fortified with detergents that exceed dexos1™ sulfated ash specifications.
Lastly in our line of performance synthetic oils AMSOIL Offers:
OE 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil (OEF) Formulated for Excellent Engine Protection and Performance
AMSOIL OE 5w30 "Original Equipment"
AMSOIL OE Synthetic Motor Oils help provide better wear control, high- and low-temperature protection and increased fuel economy compared to conventional oils.
Oil Specifications include: API SN, SM… ILSAC GF-5, GF-4… ACEA A1/B1, Ford WSS-M2C929-A, Chrysler MS-6395N, GM dexos1™ (supersedes LL-A-025, 6094M and 4718M)
- Fortified with detergents that exceed dexos1™ sulfated ash specifications.
For those outside of warranty or that would like to squeeze ever horse power and mile per gallon out of their vehicles,
AMSOIL offers the Signature Series 0w30.
AMSOIL 0w30 "Signature Series"
While this isn’t the exact grade of oil called for in the dexos requirement. The 0w30 (AZO) oil specifications include: API SN (Resource Conserving), SM…; ILSAC GF-5, GF-4…; ACEA A5/B5, A1/B1; Ford WSS-M2C946-A, WSS-M2C929-A; Chrysler MS-6395N; Suitable as a replacement for GM dexos1™ (supersedes LL-A-025, 6094M and 4718M)
By combining industry-premier synthetic technology with AMSOIL premium additives, Signature Series Synthetic Motor Oil exceeds the higher performance demands of modern engines. It withstands the stress of higher horsepower, higher heat and complicated emissions control systems.
Federal law prohibits a manufacturer from requiring the use of a specific brand in order to maintain warranty coverage. The FTC recently issued a consumer alert to remind consumers that the automaker or dealer must prove a given product caused the need for repairs rather than denying warranty coverage on the basis of the product simply being used. It is also worth noting that GM itself has acknowledged alternative engine oils may be used if dexos is unavailable. Owners manuals for 2011 GM cars state: “In the event that dexos-approved engine oil is not available at an oil change or for maintaining proper oil level, you may use substitute engine oil displaying the API Starburst symbol and of SAE 5W30 viscosity grade. Use of oils that do not meet the dexos specification, however, may result in reduced performance under certain circumstances.”
Feel free to leave your comment if you have question I would be glad to answer them.
Michael Sparks-AMSOIL Dealer / Direct Jobber
lube-direct.com
931-801-9401 or 931-801-9401
This spec sounds pretty good. Seems like GM is trying to have their engines and cars last longer and get better economy and emissions out of them. AMSOIL has been in this business for 40 years. It’s no surprise they are one of the first to meet Dexos 1. They meet or surpass every specification out there.
Amsoil’s oil does not meet GM’s Dexos specifications. They are not listed on the Dexos approved list here https://gmdexos.com/licensedbrands.html . If Amsoil was really approved they would be using the Dexos logo.
Again, the Dexos1 certification is a fee per gallon of oil. Meeting the specification is an entirely different thing. AMSOIL as well as many other oil companies have chosen not to pay GM for this.
page 257 https://chevrolet.com/assets/pdf/owners/manuals/2011/2k11cruze.pdf
As you see, even the owners manual states “Or Equivalent”
Mercedes Benz and BMW both have approved oil lists just like the one you see for dexos. Since they don’t charge a fee why isn’t Amsoil on their lists?
Now we get to the real sticky part. How is a consumer to know what is really an equivalent? We are seeing lots of VW oil related camshaft failures. One noteable incident is a loyal Amsoil user who quite strangely isn’t persuing the warranty aspect. However if he did, the oil he was using is not equivalent to the factory spec. It’s said to be suitable for use for VW502, but that means it isn’t the same.
I cannot comment on hearsay or third party accusations. I will refer back to the AMSOIL warranty that states our products are covered in the event of a failure.
AMSOIL has formulated their API (SN) 5w30 products to exceed both the ILSAC GF5 and the Dexos1 formulations.
Does use of un-licensed dexos1 motor oils in your GM vehicle void the factory warranty?
Absolutely not!
If you are told you must use a dexos1 licensed oil:
–Ask to have the statement in writing
–Send the written statement to AMSOIL
–AMSOIL will contact the GM dealer
The Magnuson Moss act states that no manufacturer can require the use of a product by brand, unless they provide that product to you free of charge. If a manufacturer, or OEM dealership, tells you that you must use their product and does not provide that product free of charge, they are in direct violation of this law. If you have heard from any member of a business that the use of AMSOIL Motor Oil, or the practice of extending drain intervals will void warranties, call the AMSOIL Technical Services department and share all the details including the name of the business, business owner or manager and the individual making the claims.
If you believe there is violation of this law, contact AMSOIL Technical Services for help 715-399-8324 or amsoil.com/techservices.aspx?zo=513524
I know this is an old argument, but I’ve been waiting for Amsoil to make a move. Here are the problems that Amsoil doesn’t seem to acknowledge:
#1. New car buyers like to protect the warranty that they paid dearly for inside the price of the vehicle. That does not mean that they are willing to go to battle for Amsoil when the dealership challenges their maintenance practices. Get this through your thick head, Amsoil!!!!! Not everyone can wait months while you argue with GM!!!!! Especially when you could have done your arguing ahead of time, just like many other oil manufacturers, by getting licensed.
#2. I’ve used Amsoil for many years. That doesn’t mean that I am 100% loyal to them. Do I like the products? Absolutely! Do I trust the corporation? Not necessarily. I know, Amsoil knows, and most other consumers know, that the cost to Amsoil for dexos1 licensing is minimal and would be passed onto the consumer. So minimal, that now, most oil companies have jumped onboard and paid for the licensing. I would love for Amsoil to reward the many people that have made them successful with some peace of mind in purchasing their product with the dexos1 licensing.
#3. In my opinion, which matters little, I believe that GM is protecting themselves from fraudulent claims that may have cost them oil-related warranty costs in the past. Can you blame them? I have a question for Amsoil. If you built engines, wouldn’t you want your customers to protect their investment so that warranty work was minimal? You already claim that you have “reformulated” your product to meet the dexos1 spec, so I’m pretty sure that your product is now better, as you do not offer any warnings about this new formulation versus the old formulation.
In closing, I’ve switched to Mobil 1, which is dexos1 licensed for my new Chevy Sonic and my new Buick Encore. I’m just not ready to put my warranty on the line for an unlicensed product, and am definitely not ready to go to battle with GM with my only ally being Amsoil. Sorry.
Thank you for you candid comments. Good luck with you choice. For me, my insurance is AMSOIL, as it’s the best protection money can buy. Warranty Secure
Dexos isn’t a brand, it’s a specification.
There are many, many different brands of oil that meet the dexos specification.
Amsoil isn’t one of them.
BTW, the “or equivalent” is only in the 2011 owner’s manuals. 2012 and up say dexos only, so using Amsoil does violate warranty.
Here is an explanation that I have received from AMSOIL Regarding the Dexos Certified Program.
AMSOIL is constantly reviewing the area of licensing and approvals. We realize that some customers, even when
they understand the protection assured to them under Magnuson-Moss, still elect to use a dexos™ licensed motor oil, even if it’s of inferior quality. AMSOIL OE and XL are not currently dexos1™ licensed due to
the onerous reporting requirements and fees placed on licensees by GM. AMSOIL strives to keep its prices as low as possible to meet the needs of the installer market, but as this segment of business continues to grow, AMSOIL may eventually be forced to absorb these fees and submit to the sales reporting requirements forced on oil manufacturers by GM.
So let me get this straight> This oil IS NOT DEXOS APPROVED! therefore it does NOT meet the Dexos requirements, could void my warranty,could damage my engine AND is more expensive the the approved product. you all can test it for me!
Obviously you don’t “have it straight”. No GM cannot just deny your warranty. If the oil meets the specification, viscosity etc. Then you cannot be automatically denied.
Sorry that you are still confused. you stated ” Vehicle manufacturers describe lubricants by their viscosity grade and service classification”. That is incorrect. Manufactures now have specific requirements for many things including fluids,tires,metal hardness,glass type,ect….The manufacture states the fluid must meet a certain spec, like Dexos, VW502 00, 7176, NOT just viscosity or API. This product is not Dexos approved therefor is does not meet the requirements(it is that simple). A vehicle owner could use a different oil, battery, tire ect.. BUT will it perform as intended?? I dont know, nor do most consumers want to do the research and development to find out.
Lastly, manufactures can and will deny warrany coverage if it is not maintained as required. GM does NOT require an owner to use a specific brand. They require an owner to use ANY oil that meets the required specification and that is Dexos! A very important difference.
Happy motoring!!
Gideon’
You cannot read simple words! Please go get someone to read them for you. Its no wonder you buy chevy’s. Too ignorant to read!
Dexos is no more a higher grade oil than GM’s Dexcool was a better antifreeze. We know how that turned out. If not I strongly suggest you find someone to read about that too you before your motor jells up with it. Everytime you see the Dexos logo you paid more for it. Its just another way they extort money from other companies. Amsoil has a better product and has since 1972. They refuse to be like other companies and pass the buck.
I like how you omitted the part of the GM owner’s manual that states that the warranty might be voided if the car owner does actually choose to use a non-approved oil (like any Amsoil product). Congratulations, that was a masterful piece of editing and spin. My question for you is this: If Amsoil products can meet the dexos specification, why doesn’t Amsoil prove it by submitting to the testing procedure and gaining the certification?
GM Guy,
AMSOIL has chosen not to “pay to play” GM’s licensing game. There is no spin involved, and AMSOIL fully warranties their oils meet the designated specification listed on the bottle at the time the oil’s were manufactured.
Feel free to read AMSOIL’s written warranty: https://amsoil.com/lit/g1363.pdf
I see there is no DEXOS label on your products, but you claim to meet the DEXOS spec? If you don’t submit to testing, how does anyone know that it truly meets DEXOS specifications? Is your word good enough? If I have an engine lubrication problem and the Dealer sees an AMSOIL oil change sticker and ask If I indeed use your oil, and they deny warranty coverage, what will you do for me?
If you ever have a warranty issue that is caused by the oil used and you are using an AMSOIL product we recommend, we will pay for the repairs necessary. This would be expected by GM no matter what oil brand was used, or if the oil was “listed” or not. Problems caused by other than the oil used would still be covered by the GM Warranty.
AMSOIL Technical Services
Quote “Federal law prohibits a manufacturer from requiring the use of a specific brand in order to maintain warranty coverage”.
There was once a time where someone could claim their product meets or exceeds a given specification and it was very difficult for a consumer to know if the claim was accurtae or not. GM’s dexos “specification” (not brand) has set a new standard which requires the specification to be listed on the front of the bottle. If the licensed logo isn’t there, then the product does not meet the specs, period.
None of the products on this page carry the license. In one instance the Chrysler spec mentioned 6395N has been superceeded by P, then Q and then R, or in otherwords three times and even MS6395R falls short of any oil that actually meets dexos specs.
This is not true, Many manufactures specify “their own” specification, Ford, GM, VW, Mercedes, BMW. Being “Certified” and meeting the manufactures specification are two entirely different things. AMSOIL lists Dexos 1 on the boxes as well as bottle labels.
You can mail this information to:
AMSOIL INC.
Attention: Technical Services Department
One AMSOIL Center
Superior, WI 54880
Quote “Being “Certified” and meeting the manufactures specification are two entirely different things. AMSOIL lists Dexos 1 on the boxes as well as bottle labels. ”
Listing dexos on the bottle and actually meeting all of the spcifications is what is not the same here. It is refreshing to see that you have allowed dissenting comment to be added to the literature, however in order to correctly inform the consumers there are some signifcant details that must be explained purely from the technical perspective. Consumers need to be made aware of the significnt changes in the technology in their cars and the important role that the engine oil now plays in not only protecting the engine under all operating conditions, but for fuel economy and emissions controls system protection as well.
While the main topic here is the dexos specification, there are important pieces of corroberating data that have to be understood. dexos is a long life designation, and the testing that the oil must go through has some facets that are equivelant to API and ILSAC, plus some facets that agree with ACEA testing protocals, and then several that are unique to dexos and from there it exceeds anything that only meets the ACEA and API/ILSAC ratings. Requiring the license and label to be on the front of the bottle wasn’t a decision that GM took lightly. That decision was necessary because of questionable advertising habits made by companies who used statements such as “Meets the engine protection requirements of GM4718M” or for example from further up on this very page…..
Quote” AMSOIL XL Extended Life Synthetic Motor Oils provide better wear control, high- and low-temperature protection and increased fuel economy compared to conventional oils.
Oil Specifications include: API SN, SM… ILSAC GF-5, GF-4… ACEA A1/B1, Ford WSS-M2C929-A, Chrysler MS-6395N, GM dexos1™ (supersedes LL-A-025, 6094M and 4718M) ”
That oil is NOT a suitable replacement for dexos, if it doesn’t meet ACEA A5/B5, then it does not meet that portion of the testing that a dexos licensed oil must meet.
Quote ““Do 2011 GM vehicle owners have to use a dexos-licensed product?” No. You can use any product that meets dexos specifications.”
The only way a conumer can really be sure that the product they have in their hand genuinely meets those specifications is by the product having the licensed logo on the front of the bottle.
Quote” They are not required to use a GM-licensed product. GM has chosen to grant licenses only to companies that pay them a substantial fee.”
Define substantial, “thirty two cents per gallon”. This is only an issue with a few manufacturers, and of course Amsoil is one of them, Valvoline for example is another and from a consumers point of view it makes no sense to me. As a consumer who understands the issue Amsoil and/or Valvoline can only have me for a customer if they provide me wtih a product that meets ALL of the requirements. Not having the logo on the bottle as required is as good as certifying that the product falls short of the requirements, forty additional cents for a five quart oil change simply isn’t a stong enough argument when compared to the total price. There is more to the story than just the price of the licensing fees. Consumers should go to the dexos licensing page and contact some of the manufacturers who have licensed products for the dexos specification for more information.
Pennzoil Platinum is on the list of licensed dexos oil But none of the bottles I have bought have the dexos logo on them anywhere. So who is right ? Also all the requirment numbers and letters on the pennsoil bottles match those on thr Amsoil bottles. So who is right ?
While Penzoil Platinum is an approved oil, there ae actually two versions of it.The one that is approved has the dexos label on the front of the bottle.
Hey cardoc,
Do you still put Dexcool in your GM car? If you do then your engine “will” {not might} jell up. GM’s Dexcool costs people 1000’s of dollars every day.
If you dont then your not fallowing your GM cars recamendations…
Dexcool {GM} wont cover any repairs caused by it during or after warranty…They only sent out TSB’s.
Breakdown of dexcool occurs when there is a system leak and air is getting into the coolant. Dexcool isn’t the only coolant that ths can happen to, it’s just the most noteable and was caused primarily by radiator caps where the upper seal (not the pressure seal) failed and that allowed the air to constantly be introduced.
Dexcool or G34 is an excellent choice for GM vehicles in North America because of the hard water (instead of correctly using distilled water) that will likely be mixed with it when it is being added. Dexcool is not a good choice for a number of other manufacturers because it can attack certain plastics and it may take time to produce protection from cavitation. Where we once had one coolant for everything some thirty years ago, today we stock seven different coolants, and simply order anything that we don’t stock on an as needed basis.
It’s shocking that GM would develop a standard like “DEXOS” and not provide the white papers to show the test results for oil manufactures to meet and exceed, without charging for their stamp of certification? I say take it to a independent lab for Testing and Verification hey if they created a great thing take the credit and get it out to the public that your cars are better and so are your Spec’s. Withholding and approval and certification for a fee makes me warry of GM and their intemntions? I am looking at the manual for a 2011 Chevy malibu specificly page 10-11 they clearly state you can use API Starburst Symbol SAE 5W-30 viscosity oil, howevery you performance may be reduced, I like the use of the word may and under certian cercumstances, please GM tell me what cercumstances? I am also not at this point surprised in the fact that the local GM dealer service depart. here in Pocatello Idaho told my girlfriend her warrenty would not be honored if she used AMSOIL, I guess they forgot to read the manual?
I have worked with many GM, Ford, VW, and other dealerships on using AMSOIL products. Recently had a Ford Dealership tell one of my customers that our AMSOIL 5w30 because it didn’t meet Ford specification WSS-M2C929-A. When it clearly says on the bottle that it does. AMSOIL sent them a letter, problem solved.
Do you have a copy of that letter? If so then please post it.
BTW GM isn’t the only manufacturer who lists approved engine oils. Here are Mercedes and BMW’s current lists.
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.5_en.html
https://bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/Owner/SyntheticEngineOils.aspx
I do not have a copy of the letter. As far as other companies “lists”, well all I can say is, why do they need a list? Can’t they just specify a specification then it’s up to the oil company to manufacture a product to that spec. Does BMW or Mercedes test every oil on their list? How do you know it’s not a “pay to play”.
The way I see it, our argument isn’t about being on a list, it’s about if the product that you are asking about meets the spec. Our company AMSOIL Inc. stands behind their products 100%. We have a written warranty to prove it. What other manufacture does this? https://amsoil.com/lit/g1363.pdf
On another response you wrote that you cannot comment on third party information or hearsay. I’d like to see a copy of the letter please.
The reason the manufacturers are publishing lists is to inform the customers about the need to use approved products. FYI, GM, BMW and Mercedes are in fact not alone, there are more that are doing the same thing. It’s the beginning of a big change which ultimately works to protect the consumer long term. Frankly I don’t understand why any companies would refuse to have their products certified and be on the approved list.
I love most of the comments and I jumped on this site because I have two Chevys 2011. Silverado truck and Chevy equinox. Msparks was the most creditable to me so my new oil is Amsoil. I never believed the hype anyway and until GM can show me something different I’m sold on Amsoil. I’m a mechanic who obviously works on my own vehicle because I don’t trust dealerships. Thanks guys
Derrick, thanks for your comment. I see GM moving away from this Dexos stuff in the future. I’ve read several articles regarding this. As oil standards get tougher AMSOIL will continue to stay on top of development to keep our products outperforming the specifications.
I have been using the AMSOIL SYNTHETIC OILS for 34 years ! have been told not to use them in older vehicles(1980 and older), well the first one was a 1975 Bobcat Merc.V6,drove it 248,984 miles. Second was a 1978 Chev Camper Special with the 454 cu.in.Engine.At ( 5,000 mi.) I recieved a post card
to come in for my 1st. oil change. When I called and inquired about using Amsoil,the service Manager stated it would void my warranty.I asked him to put in writing,and he hung up on me. What he didn’t know was I knew a Gentleman in Lodi, Calif. that was a Bobcat Tractor account of mine. Called
him,shared the details and he asked me did he offer to make my payment?
No,Sir. Did he ask why you would put an oil in that would ruin your engine?
No,Sir. Does the oil have an API Rating? Yes, Sir! API SE-CC .
Don’t worry about that jerk,go ahead and use it ! That Gentleman happened to
be the owner of the Dealership (Chase Chevrolet in Stockton,Calif,
Subsequently,I drove that truck 168,000 mi. and sold it to a fellow whose kids showed horses in 8 Western States,and pulled a tandem horse trailer for at least 5 yrs. The last time I saw that vehicle,it had 362,000 mi.on it,looked like death warmed over,with the entire Powertrain still very much intact !
I also have a 1966 850 Super Duty Ford Bobtail with a 534cu.in.engine that had 81,000 mi. on it,and changed it over to Amsoil 20w50 at 89,000mi.,today it has 381,000 mi. and the heads have never been removed !
My 2008 PT Cruiser has 69,424 mi. and with the Computer chip, Amsoil,
Foam Air Filter,and CerTech Ceramic Gel is now up to 29 Hwy.mpg.
No one will convince me ,since I have been an Amsoil Distributor for 34 years
that Synthetic Oils are not superior to conventional oils by far !
Having read through the posts, the real issue is the overall poor quality of motor oils made in the U.S. and the reluctance of the major oil companies to manufacture a better long lasting oil as they want to keep the 3,000 mile change interval alive. The oil companies are represented by the API, which to me, is just a lobbying organization for the major oil companies. API certification does not guarantee quality. In Europe, the auto manufacturers have pushed oil standards higher for years. In the US, the oil companies have controlled the industry with little resistance until now. Due to more sophisticated engines/systems, GM realizes they need to set a “global standard” because the major oil companies and their representative API will not. The major oil companies sell the lowest quality they can get away with in the US. If you look at a bottle of Castrol made in the US for example, it says “not for sale outside North America”. Hmmmm. I doubt Castrol says that because the oil is too good to use elsewhere. The Castrol sold by American VW dealers meeting VW 507 for the latest TDI engines is made in Austria… says so in the fine print on the bottle. Mobil and Shell(Pennsoil/Quaker State) had to get dexo 1 certified as Mobil1 is factory fill for some hi performace GM cars and Shell can’t afford to leave Jiffy Lube without a dexo1 oil. Very few of their oils will meet dexo1. Most (but not all) major American made oils are junk and the manufacturers will keep it that way if possible. I won’t get into the Amsoil certified/meets requirements argument, but I do trust Amsoil more than the American made Pennzoil, Quaker State, Mobil, Castrol (BP) and Valvoline. Here in the US, the consumer is not willing to do the research to become educated. As long as they use “their brand” they are confident and feel warm and fuzzy. These brands mean little as many have been bought and sold numerous times… basically, passed around like a $2 whore on $1 night. But if Americans feel all warm and fuzzy using “their brand”, it is OK… or is it?
Yes this oil discussion can get a little heated. But I think once someone realizes the benefits of synthetic it just makes sense, even if the engine will outlast the rest of the car using conventional oil. Benefits include, better fuel economy, less build up, more efficiency, high temperature protection, low temperature star-up etc. Thanks for the comment.
This just wore me out reading this since there are so many GM fanboys they can’t see the facts. Why would Amsoil pay for licensing for a logo when they have already met the standard (as always) to cut into profits and still be the same oil as before paying for the made up license. This is actually just common sense. GM wants money for licensing since they know they cannot get everyone to buy oil changes at their dealerships. I don’t have a GM (thank god) but I use Amsoil because I know they lead the way and make the best oil and sell it rather than say here is what we have in the budget hopefully it makes the grade. If I can’t use Amsoil I use Valvoline SYN and they also don’t want to pay for this dumb and pointless license. You guys want to buy oil for a green or blue logo that means nothing go ahead I’ll stick to buying oil that invented the standards and outlasts anything the “big guys” could ever make. While you are at it GM guys makes sure you buy only licensed urea for your trucks haha. No wonder you guys buy trucks that are the same since 2007 #stillboringandugly…
I have been using Amsoil since 1986 in all my vehicles. For several yeas during this time I had 9 work trucks and 2 personal cars. The vehicles logged over 2 million miles. I have never had an engine problem related to lubrication. I must say that I am bothered by the GM requirement for using dexos 1 certified lubricants. I have a 2012 Cadillac CTS and a 2012 Chevy Equinox my dealer offers free oil changes using dexos 1 synthetic blend oil. I have the dealer maintain the Cadillac which is driven little and pay for Amsoil in the daily driven Chevy.
I am amazed somewhat how so many folks are reduced to cowering beneath corporate demands. I own semi trucks that have engines in them that, alone, cost more than the most folks’ entire vehicle. Yet, those of us that own commercial trucks, do not have the inflated paranoia gland of many auto owners. We have greatly reduced fears of modifying engines and not following exact recommendations of OEM’s as long as we don’t get stupid. This whole debate on following dexos 1 spec exactly as GM wants is telling. Even GM themselves provided an “out” in the owner’s manual provided with every vehicle…. dexos or equivalent. They know they cannot force use of a particular oil just as they cannot force the use of a particular tire or fan belt. And the Federal Trade Commission has taken greater interest lately in how OEM’s are trying to “strong arm” consumers with tactics like GM is taking with the dexos specification and they have reinforced the FTC commitment to the M/M warranty act that the burden of proof in on the OEM. If one doesn’t like Amsoil and doesn’t want to use it in their GM vehicle, no problem. But it seems more like they want to pick fights than actually debate the merits, or lack thereof, of the dexos specification.
Thanks for the reply. I would tend to agree with you on all points. I have yet to hear one good reason why GM needs their own oil spec.
They wanted a trademarked spec so that unscrupulous oil companies wouldn’t be able to play the “meets the engine protection requirements of” and “recommended for use in vehicles requiring” game.
Unfortunately they aren’t aggressively enforcing that trademark as show by your usage on this website.
I don’t know what you have out for AMSOIL products, but using the trademark when describing Dexos products is perfectly acceptable. I don’t believe you will find anything unscrupulous about AMSOIL or this website. Since 1972 AMSOIL has manufactured only the highest quality synthetic lubricants that meet or exceed the most demanding test parameters. As far as a game, it seems to me that the game is from GM with their pay to play tax scheme to bilk money from suppliers to be able to put a worthless trademark on their bottle. But hey you can use whatever oils you choose. Thanks for the comment.
Valvoline to partner with Hendrick Motorsports
Sep 24, 2013
Valvoline will be the preferred oil poured by Hendrick Motorsports’ sister company, Hendrick Automotive Group, which operates 87 auto dealerships across the United States. The dealerships also will use Valvoline professional series, a line of fuel system preventive maintenance products that increase fuel economy and drivability, and Valvoline antifreeze. Both product lines contain patented technology that provides exceptional performance.
Valvoline is not on the list of dexos1 certified oil yet Rick Hendrick GM dealers are going to be putting in GM cars and trucks. Kind of funny, GM on one hand is pushing dexos and its biggest race team is partnering with a company who is anti-dexos. Looks like GM is going to be voiding lots of warranties. LOL
UPDATE 06/27/2014
FYI…..Valvoline now has dexos approved products. See the list of approved suppliers here.
https://centerforqa.com/gm/dexos1-brands
It’s possible the Hendricks motorsports marriage has something to do with it, but notice only certain products have been certified to meet the specs. There is also a change in the additive package that they are now using as compared to what was listed last fall. In order to meet the specs the addition of borates, boron, and molybdenum and a reduction in the ZDP/ZDDP levels is now consistent with other products from other manufacturers that have had approvals since the spec was first announced.,
We have seen the phrase \”Or Equivalent\” many times but what really is equivalent. Keep watching the Petroleum Quality website as they test products and show what is really in each product. https://pqiamerica.com/Nov2013/Valvolinenextgen.htm Take special note that products that have the dexos license show molybdenum, borates, and boron which enhance the boundary layer protection without damaging the emissions system. Those that don\’t have the approval not only do not list those additives, they overdose the zinc and phosphates which while expected to handle boundary layer lubrication requirements unfortunately flash off and end uo going out the exhaust and contaminate the catalysts and O2 sensors.
The Valvoline Nextgen product you have listed failed the NOAK volatility test. I would not use such a product even if it is Dexos Certified. AMSOIL’s current line of API SN / ILSAC GF-5/ Dexos 1 recommended oils do not contain an “overdose” of Zinc and Phosphorus (ZDDP) they are completely in line with what is recommended to safe operation of emissions control systems.
As far as a comparison. The least expensive full synthetic AMSOIL product is listed on the Petroleum Quality Institute of America (PQIA) and it beats the so called “Dexos Certified” product you listed by a wide margin. Lower volatility and lower ZDDP.
https://pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/Amsoil.htm
Looks good by the specs. Now all they need is the little license issue dealt with and the product will get our support.
We will continue to go round and round. AMSOIL meets the specs of Dexos. The license is just an extortion tax put on by GM.
A few months ago you noted that Valvoline was going to be Hendricks supplier and were correct that appeared to have the potential for some conflict. Now Valvoline is in step with the rest of the industry by having gotten approvals for some of its products.
Due to questionable advertising by many manufacturers in the past it just isn’t good enough for someone to say they meet the spec. It’s either approved, or it isn’t. This paragraph from above says a lot about this topic.
“While this isn’t the exact grade of oil called for in the dexos requirement. The 0w30 (AZO) oil specifications include: API SN (Resource Conserving), SM…; ILSAC GF-5, GF-4…; ACEA A5/B5, A1/B1; Ford WSS-M2C946-A, WSS-M2C929-A; Chrysler MS-6395N; Suitable as a replacement for GM dexos1™ (supersedes LL-A-025, 6094M and 4718M)”
“Suitable as a replacement” means just what the first sentence says, “this isn’t the exact grade of oil called for in the dexos requirement” . On top of that the current Chrysler spec is MS-6395R. Do you know what changed with Chryslers requirements as they went from N, to P, to Q and now to R?
Not all 5w30 have same viscosity. I use 0w40 mobil1 which barely passes w30 upper limit.
Will give amsoil a try in future
Great to hear you are looking forward to trying AMSOIL. Let us know if we can answer any questions for you. What kind of vehicle are you using the 0w40 in may I ask?
The Amsoil is a good oil. I would have no problem using it. I use another brand, but I am not brand loyal as some are and worship at their oil alter regarding the brand they use.
Now the dexos1 thing. If you check your owners manual, it says “dexos1 or equivalent”. At least my 2013 1500 manual said that. Now, there is a TSB out from GM themselves, that categorically states that if dexos1 approved oil is not available, then a quality synthetic that meets the GF-5 spec is adequate. So you have two examples, straight from GM themselves, that while they want you to use a dexos licensed oil, they do not require it.
Oh…. the TSB from GM is 13-00-90-001. It even goes so far as to say this same thing on the newer Ecotec motors that use the 20w oils.
Look, they put this stuff out there to prevent users from buying some two bit no-name oil made from dog snot and putting it in their motor. I know some would use the Magnussen Moss Warranty act as an argument that you do not have to use a dexos licensed oil, but we don’t even have to go that far. GM themselves acknowledges that a quality synthetic that meets the ILSAC GF-5 spec is adequate. There is nothing going on inside of GM’s motors that is all that much different than any other brand. I would contend that most any synthetic or synthetic blend that meets the API SN “Resource Conserving” and the ILSAC GF-5 specs, which are the latest industry oil standards, will work fine in the pickup.
I never used a dexos “approved”oil in my 2013 1500 5.3L or my 2015 2500HD 6.0L. I used the Schaeffer 9000 5w30 full synthetic in both of these vehicles. Never had any concern whatsoever. It met API SN, ILSAC GF-5 and dexos1 specs.
Truth be told, the dexos1 only differs a little from the other specs in two areas…. it requires a maximum of 12 NOACK, or burn off rate, and it has a little higher anti oxidation requirement. Interesting, that GM pushes the ethanol thing is a major way, the GF-5 spec regarding ethanol far exceeds the dexos1 spec when it comes to ethanol. Look at any “spider” diagram that overlaps the various specs and shows their strengths and weaknesses.
It is so good to hear that my GM diesel will run for longer just by replacing my oil. I will have to suggest that a higher efficiency oil is used when I go in for my next service. I am glad to hear there are advances being made to ensure the life of my vehicle. Thanks for sharing.
NO! put any oil you want as long as its the correct grade!
The technology in todays cars hs been changing at a rapid pace. Even something that was once as simple as engine oil has now become one where more education is needed. You cannot simply grab an API 5W30 and expect it to meet the requirements for every vehicle that needs a 5W30.
A 5W30 that meets BMW and VW is actually thicker than one that meets Ford and GM’s requirements, and that’s just the start. That’s the reason for each manufacturer requiring their own specifications for the oil. There isn’t time to try and write out all of the details here. I’ll simply suggest you get in a class and find out what the oil requirements are for a roller camshaft as compared to a flat tappet design. Then consider what it takes to make sure an oil is thin enough to be wiped by the rings from the cylinder walls which controls loss, thin enough to pick up piston heat, yet still thick enough to protect the bearings.
This is just nonsense, a 5w30 viscosity is a 5w30 viscosity. If the manufacture specifies a certain viscosity it’s up the lubricant manufacture to make a product to meet that. If BMW or VW wants a thicker oil they would specify that, ie a 10w30 or a 5w40. Where do you come up with your information?
On a secondary note, lower quality oils normally start out thicker, then get thinner over time, which some will thin out of grade withing just a few thousand miles. Then other oils might get thicker over time, primarily caused from oxidation and volatility (oil burning off) at which time they would thicken out of grade. Think of an engine that is full of sludge, someone used an inferior oil which didn’t hold up to the drain interval that the consumer decided to do.
Nonsense that a BMW specification 5w30 oil is thicker than a GM specification 5W30 oil? Have you ever payed attention to the ACEA ratings and what they mean? A BMW 5W30 is going to be an A3/B3 or A3/B4 rated oil, while GM dexos 5W30 is an A1/B1, A5/B5. BMW requires a high HTHS while GM requires a low HTHS. That means an oil that meets BMW’s specs is thicker than an oil that meets GM’s and they are both 5W30. I could go on and on about all of this but it comes down to education for the consumer. BMW and Mercedes are not pay to play as you want to put it. GM has taken this certification approach because they got left holding the bag on quite a few mechanical failures that were caused by products that actually failed to meet their specifications but it wasn’t clear to the consumers exactly what really is “equivalent”. Heck it wasn’t clear for professional mechanics when statements such as “Meets the engine protection requirements of GM4718” really mean.
Please take a look at the motor oil viscosity chart. This will help you establish that all motor oil’s must fall within a viscosity rating. One 5w30 thicker than another 5w30 is just nonsense. https://bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/
ACEA ratings, GF ratings, API ratings and others are defined as a performance class not a viscosity class. These performance ratings could be a factor of wear, high temperature, fuel economy and other areas. There is no rating for viscosity. Motor oil viscosity is a parameter of that viscosity, not a performance rating.
Hi Mike
Find and post the specifications in Cp for an SAE 5W30 at 150 C , and then an ACEA A1/B1, A5/B5 at 150 C. Now how do they compare to a 5W30 A3/B3 or A3/B4 at 150 C?
Now find and post the specs for an SAE 10W40 at 150 C in Cp.
Find and post the cranking and pumping requirements in Cp for an SAE 5W30 at -40C and how does that compare to a 5W30 that meets GM’s approval?
I have them to post if necessary, but you should look this up yourself.
Thanks for bringing up this information, though I’m a little confused at what you are getting at. Here is a chart pointing the low temperature pumping viscosity in cP https://gf-5.com/gsuniverse/sitetemplates/gf5/DetoxComparisonChart.html Yes you can see that the GM spec is much better at 40,000 vs the 60,000 for GF5. Also here is a spider chart of the GF-5 vs the Dexos spec. https://gf-5.com/gsuniverse/sitetemplates/gf5/SPIDER%20DIAGRAM.html
Yes the HTHS specs for the ACEA ratings.
In short compare the A3/B3 minimums for 5W30 and how does that 30 weight oil compare to a 40 weight SAE? How does a GM approval compare to both of those? (GM is a low HTHS “thinner” and BMW is a high HTHS that requires a 30 weight that get’s their approval to be thicker than the SAE40)
You have already seen a GM 5W30 is thinner at -40, in fact it is darn near a 0W. As far as this being confusing, this is a nightmare for all of us.
Sorry things have been crazy the last few weeks. Look up the dynamic viscosity specs for approved oils for BMW, Mercedes, and VW at 150C (301f) and then do the same for an oil that meets dexos1 and then API/ILSAC.
If you only look at 0C and 100C you won’t see the difference.
I agree, finally we might be on the same page. I’ve been using AMSOIL long before we even had a euro oil. My 2004 VW TDI got AMSOIL 0w30 which had an ACEA spec of B3 suitable for diesel TDI motor. The HT/HS was 3.5 as I recall.
Of course now we have a Euro Oil for both Low SAPS and most euro specs. The 10w30 has a HT/HS vis of 3.8
Anyhow, thanks for all your comments. I enjoyed reading them.
The ACEA spec you need to quote is A3/B3, or A3/B4 The “B3” was obsoleted as of 2004. One of the real difficult issues is ACEA’s specs should actually include the year the product is tested for but that information is not normally listed. Hence the need to obtain and use products that have the specific approval by the vehicle’s manufacturer.
Amsoil won’t get my business until GM awards them approval. Again, why are they not doing that with everyone else that has?
https://gmdexos.com/licensedbrands/dexos1licensedbrands.html
Car Doc. Thanks for your feedback. Hopefully this article allowed those that had concerns about the Dexos spec the option to understand that it’s a “pay to play” scheme GM is using to bilk much needed money. As of this comment 9/11/18 GM stock prices are at their lowest levels of the year during a so called booming economy. I can old guess that GM executives are looking for as many ways as possible to increase revenue.